[Aaus-list] [Ukrainians For Obama] From the Grapevine: "... leaders of US-Ukrainian organizations to discuss sanctions and other impactful actions to help Ukraine"

Sat Jan 4 03:58:55 EST 2014

On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, dkolodiy at aol.com wrote:

> The point is that it's not about switching Yanukovych for a
> new President from the opposition. Many protestors feel the
> opposition leaders are have bullied their way onto Maidan
> and are leveraging it for their own publicity, but no one
> is offering a new strategy for what and how they would
> change the system. Hence why there are 2 "Maidan"
> organizations, one created and appointed by the
> politicians, and a real grassroots one. And sure, let's
> break everything down into categories so we can analyze and
> digest it, but the fact of it being an organic movement is
> that there are different people on Maidan with different
> desires and goals.  Ukraine as a whole is trying to shed
> it's Soviet past for some more democractic way of
> organizing itself, but why does it have to fall into some
> western model? The point is that maybe Maidan can come up
> with some other new model that will work in Ukraine. 

So we're watching some sort of live experimentation, something like all of 
that expiremental communal living in Haight-Ashbury that was documented in 
the pages of LIFE magazine during the summers of the mid- to late-1960s, 
supposedly ushering a new, yet unkown, way of better life.

The part of Maidan that you describe as being led by politicians sounds an 
awful lot like "astroturf" movements where they are made to look like 
something like "grassroots" (from below) but are effectively directed from 
"above."

The other part, per your description, seems to model itself on the 
mechanics of the OWS (Occupy Wall Street) movement, or things like it. OWS 
hasn't resulted in any effective political change; it's leaders, some sort 
of self-labelled anarachists, refuse to "negotiate" because that would 
somehow "compromise" their position, ceding some power to established 
opponents.

Signature pieces of legislation such as the Volcker rule of the Dodd-Frank 
legislation were given 365 days windows for negotiation and enactment; I 
think that they've gone past 1000 days before there has been any sort of 
weak, albeit meaningful, enactment.

Similarly, Euromaidan 2013 - grassroots (using your typology), didn't have 
and continues not to have the view that there needs to be leadership (or 
if there is, the leadership needs to be coordinated) and somewhat clear in 
its policy goals. This approach doesn't have much prospects for any sort 
of positive, lasting change. It just wants to sit in the limelight like 
some hydra-morphing party sucking media attention under some 
anti-Yanukovych banner.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's MAJOR fiscal problems (huge current account imbalance 
tied to a potential sovereign debt default ) have been deferred a 
year or two into the future (possibly past 2015 so that Yanukovych can improve his 
chances for the next Presidential election).

> Any why is any display of patriotism in Ukraine labeled
> "nationalistic" which has a negative connotation? In the US
> if someone displays the American flag, sings USA USA, and
> the national anthem, they are not labeled "nationalists",
> but patriots. People here are displaying some enthusiasm
> and pride towards being Ukrainian, I think it's great and
> really important especially for the younger generation to
> have this feeling of pride and identity... it causes them
> to care about the country as a whole, rather then just the
> "tribe" or "city" that they are from, ie Yanuk/Ahemotov
> feel some sense of affinity only towards Donbas.

The comments are Serhiy Kvit's (Kyiv-Mohyla's rector) citation of 
Volodymyr Yermolenko's view of Euromaidan.

MP
pyz at brama.com

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com>
> To: Ukrainians for Obama-Biden <vote2012 at ukrainiansforobama.com>
> Cc: politics <politics at brama.com>; aaus-list <aaus-list at ukrainianstudies.org>
> Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 8:53 am
> Subject: Re: [Ukrainians For Obama] From the Grapevine: "... leaders of US-Ukrainian organizations to discuss sanctions and other impactful actions to help Ukraine"
> 
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2014, dkolodiy at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > It's more then just Europe or Russia, Maidan is a laboratory
> > for a new way Ukrainians are trying to organize themselves
> > in horizontal rather then vertical structures....
> > http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/42348929
> 
> I'm not sure as to what you're responding or what you are trying to say.
> 
> Citing the following from "What the Ukrainian protests mean" in University 
> World News by Serhiy Kvit:
> http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20140103090224420
> 
> 
> " ... Ideology of the ‘revolution of dignity’
> 
> Volodymyr Yermolenko, a lecturer at Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, offered an 
> original comment on the relativity of ideologies in the world today. At 
> Maidan, one can see a mix of anarchic communism, nationalism and 
> liberalism.
> 
> Maidan demonstrates elements of anarchic communism in its organisation: no 
> money circulates, it is based on volunteering, solidarity and donations, 
> it embraces the commune and the collective body dominates over 
> individuals.
> 
> It is nationalistic in its emotional component: singing of the national 
> anthem, prayers from Ukrainian churches, nationalistic mottos, the 
> domination of the colours of the national flag and its use of ribbons of 
> the national colours used for visual self-identification.
> 
> But it is also liberal in its argumentation: European flags, emphasising 
> human rights and democracy, appealing to liberal Europe, and its 
> aspiration to build a ‘European country’.
> 
> An anarchic and communist type organisation, nationalistic emotions and 
> liberal arguments – this is the strange hybrid creature that is our 
> Maidan, Volodymyr Yermolenko wrote.
> 
> I should also mention the vanishing of the national – for example, the 
> joining together of Crimean Tatars, liberal Jewish and Russian 
> intellectuals – and social barriers – for instance, the support given by 
> small and middle-size businesses and the director general of 
> Microsoft-Ukraine Dmytro Shymkiv personally shoveling snow at Maidan.
> 
> This enables us to understand that the main meaning of the Euro-revolution 
> is held in ‘people’s heads’ and is about a real, not just a declared, 
> belief in freedom and justice."
> 
> 
> Lovely. Euromaidan 2013 is just like Woodstock Nation 1969.
> 
> It may disseminate the idea, but it doesn't deal with the problems of 
> power nor does it build or strengthen any sort of leadership in the 
> opposition.
> 
> MP
> pyz at brama.com
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com>
> > To: aaus-list <aaus-list at ukrainianstudies.org>; politics <politics at brama.com>
> > Cc: vote2012 <vote2012 at ukrainiansforobama.com>
> > Sent: Fri, Jan 3, 2014 6:23 am
> > Subject: [Ukrainians For Obama] From the Grapevine: "... leaders of 
> US-Ukrainian organizations to discuss sanctions and other impactful actions to 
> help Ukraine"
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > The Grapevine says, "... Alexandra Chalupa who has organized a meeting 
> > today at the White House with President Obama's foreign policy advisers 
> > and leaders of US-Ukrainian organizations to discuss sanctions and other 
> > impactful actions to help Ukraine."
> > 
> > It's interesting as to how to this has been organized.
> >   - there's no adherence to a [D|d]emocratic understanding (using of upper- 
> > and lower-case is intentional)
> >   - there's no listing of who these "leaders" are and their respective 
> > organizations (do we need to file a FOIA request, or will someone be 
> > forthcoming?)
> > 
> > Will one of these leaders be the person who wrote the factually incorrect 
> > statement, "the overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian people want a 
> > European direction ... " or things like "All polls indicate that the 
> > overwhelming majority of the Ukrainian people want a European direction 
> > for the future."  
> > 
> > Remember that claims such as these (and similar statements by others) have 
> > the effect of damaging the credibility of Ukrainian-Americans and the 
> > protestors in Maidan.
> > 
> > 
> > MP
> > pyz at brama.com
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > vote2012 mailing list
> > vote2012 at ukrainiansforobama.com
> > http://www.brama.com/mailman/listinfo/vote2012
> > 
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> vote2012 mailing list
> vote2012 at ukrainiansforobama.com
> http://www.brama.com/mailman/listinfo/vote2012
> 
>