[Aaus-list] Revolution of values?

Tue Apr 17 00:52:01 EDT 2018

It is quite possible to feel “fraternal” towards the Russian people while condemning their political leaders. Many Ukrainians have inter-ethnic families and Russian colleagues and friends. A similar situation existed in the Former Yugoslavia: inter-ethnic marriages and families. Many people resisted being forced to “hate” Serbs ( or Croats, Bosnians) reserving their anger for political leaders.

There’s something distasteful about questions which fish for attitudes to Russians (as opposed to those about  Russia as a state actor)  Why rejoice whenever the percentage of those who dislike Russians rises? Surely there’s been enough ethnic hatred and inter-ethnic barbarity in Central and Eastern Europe in its history?

Daria Fedewytsch-Dickson

From: AAUS-list [mailto:aaus-list-bounces at ukrainianstudies.org] On Behalf Of ??
Sent: Monday, 16 April 2018 3:39 PM
To: Roman Solchanyk <roman at solchanyk.org>
Cc: aaus-list at ukrainianstudies.org Ukr. Studies <aaus-list at ukrainianstudies.org>
Subject: Re: [Aaus-list] Revolution of values?

Вітання пане Романе!
For a long time, Stalin has said that the most unpredictable statistics, it can be where to send. Therefore, I do not believe her a lot. Most people in Ukraine hope that someone will uphold good laws that will do better, that the Western countries will help. The world sees Ukrainians overwhelmed as a raw material base. This is evident from the support of trade, educational reform, medical, etc. Something else from the western countries was not to wait. Even the US (Obama) wanted to make a more sotsial medical reform so that it was similar to Canadian, then he was not given it, and now Trump returned to old medicine. In Ukraine, they do not know about social medicine, pensions, Canadian education. In the world and in Western countries, there are different sytstemy life, which in Ukraine is not known. All this is visible to those who are interested in this.
Thanks to Russian propaganda and Ukrainians, the world is changing in a worse way.
Georgе

15 квітня 2018, 22:20:52, від "Roman Solchanyk" <roman at solchanyk.org<mailto:roman at solchanyk.org>>:

Dr. Sawka may want to be careful what he wishes for when wondering what Ukainians think of Russia(ns).

In April 2014, AFTER the occupation and annexation of Crimea and WHILE the "Russian Spring" (i.e., attempted occupation [annexation?]) was unfolding in Eastern Ukraine, 62% of respondents in Ukraine considered Ukrainians and Russians to be "fraternal peoples" (brothers?).  In Nov. 2016—when it was perfectly clear that Russia was directly involved in the fighting in the Donbas—that figure dropped to a small majority of 51%.  The ONLY region where a majority (either absolute or relative) rejected this notion was Western Ukraine.  The data is from the Razumkov Centre.

In terms of ethnicity, 47% of Ukrainians in Ukraine shared the above "fraternal" view (along with 82% of Russians) at the end of 2016; that is nearly half of the self-identified Ukrainian population (!).  So did 42% of young people, ages 18-29 (!!).

Unfortunately, there do not appear to be any data on the "fraternal" issue for 2017.  But we do know that in June 2017 more people in Ukraine had a positive view (27%) as opposed to a negative view (22%) of Russian citizens, while the largest proportion (43%) expressed their neutrality.  As for Russia, 45% said in Feb. 2018 that their attitude toward the country was "basically good" or "very good" (Kyiv Int'l Inst. of Sociology).  Lastly, so as not to overly belabor these points, in Nov. 2017 a slight majority of people in Ukraine (51%) were against introducing a visa regime with Russia.  Even in Western Ukraine 42% were for and 42% against (Rating Group).

As for the types of questions being suggested about Putin and Yanukovych, these are political exercises that are designed to yield "feel good" responses, not sociological insights.

And finally, I quite understand that one can feel rather uncomfortable when confronted with Ukraine's realities and, therefore, simply wave it all off as "silly"—silly question, silly answer (cf.  POTUS, deplorables, and the WH's "fake news" explanations).  So yes, I too like to visit Lviv, drink Lvivske 1715 svitle in kneipen on pl. Rynok, and pretend that I am in "Ukraine."

P.S.
Clearly, my take on this is not the full or only story.  Other indicators, such as ethnic Ukrainian self-identity, identity with the state, patriotism, language trends—offer a more cheery perspective, albeit with caveats and contradictions:  for example, while somewhat more people are declaring Ukrainian as their native language, the number of people who actually speak Ukrainian and/or Russian at home, the workplace, with friends, etc. has remained fairly stable.

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Jaroslaw Sawka <jbsawka at gmail.com<mailto:jbsawka at gmail.com>> wrote:
Regarding this so called controversy- I agree w Andrew Sorokowski: "Silly question-silly answer".
Far better questions of Ukrainians would be:
Do you feel as close and comfortable to Putin and his Russians as you did BEFORE the EuroMaidan "revolution" or "coupe" or whatever it was?  Do you prefer to have Yanukovych back or someone else imposed and approved by Putin instead of the current Ukrainian leadership?

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 11:54 AM Roman Solchanyk <roman at solchanyk.org<mailto:roman at solchanyk.org>> wrote:
I must admit that it is heartening to learn that automobile drivers in Ukraine (and Russia)—you know, the ones who simply purchase their drivers' licenses instead of putting up with the nonsense, to say nothing of the discomfort, of sitting an exam and passing a road test—may be coming around to the notion that murdering pedestrians as they walk to work or take their children to school may not be appropriate.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 10:25 AM, Hugo Lane <hugolane at gmail.com<mailto:hugolane at gmail.com>> wrote:
Regarding Revolutions, I think we should not assume that revolutions have to be successful to be real revolutions.  I'm not sure how to determine the difference between a popular uprising and a revolution. Using 1848 as the best example of revolutions that arguably failed, France, Austria, and what was to become Germany were all quite different places in 1858 from what they had been in 1848. So in retrospect, it is hard not to recognize the significance of the events of 1848-49 with the term revolution. In the case of Ukraine in 2013-4, what stand out most is that quite against anyone's expectation and even desire when the Maidan first began in reaction to Yanukovych walking away from the EU Association agreement Yanukovych ended up leaving office. That alone seems to me to warrant still calling it a revolution, even if four years on with the NABU and the various Civic organizations focused on corruption under attack the situation is quite discouraging. May I add, that I suspect the customary framing of the attitudes in terms of West, meaning Europe, and Slavic, meaning Russia and Belarus, may be misdirecting us away from the extent to which Ukrainians have adopted views more in line with Western Europe. I mean, if I were in a frustrated Ukrainian looking at how little things have changed, I might easily answer this question by saying with regret that norms of behavior are more Slavic, knowing that within the last month or so I had paid a bribe or something because there was no way around that because the officials I was dealing with were correct. Also the lines are blurred. One of the things that struck me most during my 2016 visit to Ukraine was how much more civil drivers had become towards pedestrians. Talking to a fellow American and Russianist friend as we walked around Lviv, he said this was also true in Russia. So if I've never been to the west, but I've been to Russia and the drivers are now more civil too, a respondent is not necessarily going to associate that with Western behavior.  This is not to say that the 2013-4 events definitely led to substantive changes. I am not sufficiently in tune with life in Ukraine right now to make that assessment, but I find it hard to believe that the events of 2013-14 have gone down a memory hole.

Hugo Lane

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 8:33 PM, Roman Solchanyk <roman at solchanyk.org<mailto:roman at solchanyk.org>> wrote:
For those convinced that the events of late 2013 and 2014 constituted a revolution—specifically, a revolution of values—some of the results of the most recent national poll conducted by Ukraine's Institute of Sociology should provide food for thought.

Thus, when asked "Which traditions, values, and norms of behavior of citizens of [Western European or East Slavic] countries are closest to yours?," in June-July 2016 45% opted for East Slavic—i.e., Russian and Belarusian.

Nearly a decade earlier, in 2007, that figure was 46.5%—a difference of only 1.5 percentage points.  That hardly constitutes a "revolution of values."

Admittedly, more people in 2016 (33.2%) than in 2007 (19.5%) chose the countries of Western Europe.

On the other hand, presumably the data does not include the preferences of the population of Crimea and the occupied parts of the Donbas, totalling nearly 6.5 million people (about 14% of Ukraine's population), which means that the pro-East Slavic option would have been considerably higher had they been included.

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